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| Sample invoice for ammunition purchase. Much of the ammunition is purchased from large out-of-state vendors or from Frisco Gun Shop and Wal Mart. |
Approximately four years ago, at the same time he was pushing the county to build a flooded duck shooting impoundment over at the Dare County landfill, Commissioner Mike Johnson was responsible for getting an appropriation into the county budget that allocated $10,000 per year to start school shooting teams in the county. The discussion of this matter was never brought out in commissioner meetings. When EOD learned about it, several years ago, he called school board chairman David Oaksmith, who also knew very little about the matter, but gave assurances that the schools were taking no part or responsibility in the matter, and would only be allowing the kids to use school property as an after-school program event, much like other clubs, etc. Neither Oaksmith or EOD knew at that time that the county was actually putting money into the program.
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| Sample invoice for one of several gun purchases |
EyeonDare has learned, since that time, that the county has continued to finance shooting teams at all three high schools and at least one middle school, and in some cases, school finance officers are being utilized to receive invoices for ammunition and supplies and pay bills for the teams. In addition, several school teachers/employees serve as volunteers to assist the teams with gun related events and training. Recently, our school superintendent, Sue Burgess, spoke with EOD and insisted the school system is not a part of the program, despite the fact that the youth involved submit applications through school offices.
The real problem, as EyeonDare sees it, is no one seems to know where the liability lies should someone get hurt or some unfortunate happenstance occurs while these kids are using and learning to use these firearms.
Currently, the county has placed the "Youth Shooting Teams" into the parks and recreation line item budget, but Parks & Recreation Director Tim White says his department has no control over the program. White does acknowledge ordering ammunition, targets, and related supplies for the teams, upon request from team advisors, and storing it on county recreation property. When asked, White refused to say where the ammunition, with orders sometimes ranging up to 275 boxes of shells and bullets, is stored. Invoices examined by EyeonDare also reveal that at least two or three military style 22 cal. rifles have been purchased, along with at least one gun safe. The county finance office receives, approves and pays all bills covered under the county's yearly appropriation.
When EyeonDare inquired as to who was safeguarding the guns, no one was able to give an answer.In fact, at one point it was obvious that no one in county government knew where the guns were located, despite the fact they are county owned. When asked where the ammunition and skeet machines, etc. were kept on Hatteras Island, one respondent said the items were kept in a utility trailer that was moved from place to place by the team advisor(s).
EyeonDare spoke with county manager Bobby Outten about the shooting teams and Outten also said the county had no direct supervision or control over the teams other than providing financing for the guns, ammunition, etc. EyeonDare was also told the the teams did receive private donations from time to time which were funneled through to the school finance officers.
Meanwhile, back when Commissioner Johnson started his push for getting the duck impoundment built at the landfill, he presented a check to the board of commissioners for $10,289 which was written by the non-profit NC Waterfowl Association, a Florida corporation that has now gone defunct. Johnson said the funds were raised locally to aide in teaching youth about hunting and proper use of guns. EyeonDare recently contacted a former official of the Association who was stunned to learn that the money had never been spent and still sits in the county coffers. The official told EOD that the county should turn the money over to another youth organization, and specifically mentioned Camp Canvasback, which is a part of the Eastern 4-H organization in Columbia, NC. EyeonDare does not know if the Association and Dare County has ever reached an understanding on the matter as of this date.
In the middle of the entire fiasco is the, now infamous, Johnson big bear hunts on the county posted (no firearms allowed) landfill property. However, Outten insists that Johnson's bear hunts and the youth shooting teams are two entirely unrelated matters, despite the fact that last month the board of commissioners also tossed Johnson's youth (bear) hunting program over to the parks and recreation department and told them, "you handle it".
The last time EOD talked with director White about that matter, the befuddled parks and recreation advisory committee had instructed him to check with other counties in the state to see if any had ever operated such programs. Apparently, White was unable to find any, and the saga continues.
Meanwhile, Johnson says he's stepping down from his seat on the county board of commissioners in December and, at least for the time being, the citizens of Dare County have guns and gun classes associated with their school system and tax dollars are being used to buy firearms and ammunition, whether anyone likes it or not.
After all, "its no different than a soccer team", Outten told EyeonDare. And to that, EOD says, "if we want to teach our kids about age-old traditions in Dare County, such as gun handling/hunting, why not, instead, teach them about net mending and boat building? Then they would have something to fall back on in life. Meanwhile, let's leave gun ownership and hunting techniques to the kids' parents, providing they approve. OK?"
36 comments:
Father & Son - you have this so wrong. The shooting teams are open to any student that wishes to participate. They must first attend and pass a hunters education class taught by the NC game wardens before they are allowed to participate in target shooting. Team members practice at the Outer Banks Gun Club range. We practice - 22 cal rifle, Shotgun - Skeet, Archery, and Orienteering. All instructors are licensed NRA instructors. We compete against many of the other county school systems in NC. Shooting is a respected competitive sport. To think that you are so small minded that you would totally distort the opportunity for a parent to spend time with their child..... in the name of wasted tax dollars ?! I for one purchase ALL the ammunition for my son's use and many of the parents contribute what they can can including their time. Why dont you come out and see our teams practice this Sunday, 2/26/12, 1 pm @ the Outer Banks Gun Club ? You might learn something.
Well by looking at the bill there is some skeet shooting going on too. This is not the first time Johnson has told somebody to go handle it themselves. The irresponsible and wreckless attitude by the County Attorney and a commissioner is unacceptable. They dont know where firearms and ammunition are? That were bought with OUR money? ALL of these people must go WITH Johnson. This is not only outrageous, its now getting dangerous.
If Dare county is willing to really get involved, there are over 200 schools in NC with this program.
How to Start a Youth Hunter Education Skills Team
Feb 10
Written by:
2/10/2012 3:09 PM RssIcon
The N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission has set the schedule for the 2012 Youth Hunter Education Skills Tournaments, marking the 34th year for the popular statewide shooting sports events. Hundreds of middle school and high school students will participate in this incentive component of Hunter Education Program.
The past 10 years have witnessed a tremendous growth. For example, in 2001 there were 12 teams competing in my district, D-7, and there were 42 teams last year. In 2011, there were 218 teams total in the nine district tournaments.
I recently met with a couple of schools that had inquired on how to start a team. This has become a rather common inquiry this time of year. Here are a few of the more common questions asked by school administrators, potential coaches and community leaders.
How do we get started? Generally, I send the administrator a copy of the rules and schedule a meeting to discuss eligibility requirements, general safety rules, and the basic competition structure. I also meet again with the team coaches, parents, participants, and community support. So, getting in touch with a Hunter Education Specialist is the first step.
What kind of training do our coaches need? Each team must have at least one person certified as a Hunter Education Instructor and at least one person certified as a Range Safety Officer. The school and team administration can require all coaches to be certified. This is all up to the staff.
What will the cost be? The registration for a district tournament is $50 per team. If your team is fortunate enough to qualify for the state tournament, the registration fee is $100 per team. These are the registration costs. Team operation costs are as varied as the number of teams. Most teams conduct fundraisers to defray practice expenses. There are also a number of grants and assistance from private businesses and organizations. Travel, supplies, uniforms you — set your own budget.
What are the events? There are four events: rifle, shotgun and archery marksmanship, as well as an orienteering challenge and a hunting knowledge test. All four events are worth up to 1,000 team points and up to 200 individual points.
How many people can I have on the team? Each team is required to have five participants at each event. However, participants are not required to compete in all events. Coaches determine which participants compete in the particular events. Teams can have a maximum of 20 competitors and as many alternates as they want. The average team size is from seven to 10. Schools can have up to three teams.
When and where do we compete? There are district tournaments, usually in March and typically on a Saturday. These tournaments take place at local wildlife clubs, shooting preserves, 4-H camps, and Boy Scout reservations. The State Youth Hunter Skills Tournament, the North Carolina championship, is held on the fourth Saturday of April at Millstone 4-H Center near Ellerbe. All participants are eligible to compete in the NRA’s International Youth Hunter Education Challenge.
What benefits could be expected for students? This is an opportunity for young people, male and female, to be involved in a team and learn the value of teamwork, sportsmanship and achieving team goals. Several coaches and school administrators have commented to us that many participants have made better grades, improved behavior and increased class attendance once involved in a team. The tournaments also provide an opportunity for participants to be a part of a competitive event.
Students who might not typically be involved in athletics can participate in an intense, serious event and be competitive.
By Tim Lemon, District 7 Hunter Education Specialist
@Anon/Father & Son
First of all, the credibility of the shooting teams and the fact they take hunter education classes has nothing to do with this issue.
The issue is whether it is appropriate for county taxpayers to fund something that so many people don't suppport. And it is simply a cop-out to say anyone is denying a parent the opportunity to spend time with his/her child by not using tax dollars to pay for it. If you buy your son's ammunition apparently you are in the minority or your son is shooting too much ammo, given the thousands of rounds purchased by the county. Finally, I could care less about coming out and watching your son shoot a gun. Just tell him "I hope he doesn't shoot his eye out". :)
Finally as to shooting team in other school systems, as you say...can you tell me who's funding them?
Tim (Lennon)
You say you recently met with other schools who want shooting teams. Sorry, but "schools" are not people. who did you meet with?
School offiicals? County commissioners? who is going to pay the expenses of these so-called upcoming teams? The real issue here is not the value of Hunter Education Programs for kids in NC. The real issue is who should pay for it and should such classess/teams be handled in the shipshod manner as here in Dare County and be imposed upon the taxpayer public by one single commissioner without open discussion or debate from the constituents. In addition, would you please show me one school system in NC that has such teams and professes to know less about what is going on than Dare County.
Like it or not Mr. Lennon this is an accident waiting to happen, whether it be on the shooting teams or in the baited cornfield over at the Dare County landfill.
For my part I want no portion of my tax dollars supporting such foolishness. I taught my children about gun safety and hunting education and they are doing the same for their children. Every parent should do the same if they feel it is important for their children and not expect others to do it for them. Nuff said.
I have no problems with shooting teams or schools promoting them or the county helping organize them. I do have a problem being tax payer funded. I have a major problem with the enpoundment as well as the bear hunts on county property that is not open to all. As far as guns in schools. I graduated in 1980, and or school didn`t want guns in vehicles or lockers. They were to be in a gun case, unloaded and in the office! We NEVER had a gun problem EVER! I have a major problem with this nanny state that we live in and liberals telling us what is better for us! I am an avid hunter and target shooter and have taught both of my kids how to shoot. Guns, ammo and other expenditures should not be paid for by tax payer money! But your "guns have no place in our schools", is BS liberal crap that is part of dumbing down and weakening of this great country. The schools should be bringing in volunteers to teach kids how to use and handle guns, ethical hunting etc!
This is great news. I have been wanting my kids to join something like this but I did not know it existed. Thanks for the info. It is good to see our tax dollars going for something worthwhile.
I want county tax money to pay for a boat building and fishing program. Why cant my special interest be paid for by tax payers money?
I'll wager you that if Mike Johnson had taken his ideas to the various school PTA's he would have been thrown out of the building on his a$$. Our public school system should not be even remotely involved in gun courses and local tax dollars should not be used to finance them.
Manteo High used to teach net mending and boat building. It was cut out when there wasn't much interest. You can't make the kids of today do something that might help them in their future. They have to take algebra that a lot will never use. And if they do, they don't know it.
You said a mouthfull Big Daddy.
You're right, we can't make kids learn anything today that they don't want to...and therein lies the problem with society today.
Kids tell parents what they want, instead of parents teaching kids what is best for their future.
Garry Gibbs (aka)Anonymous, Well u can tell the gun owners from the Utopia crowd, shooting is a sport just like football and basket weaving, granted as usual the Gov. has no clue whats going on, thats the real problem here, put now maybe it will be addressed. The gun sports are educational and help make these kids more responsible and self reliant, its a history course, they are excercising their 2nd Amend. right, they learn food preperation,how to manage wildlife,and how to protect their families while the rest of u are cowering in the corner. The program has to be managed and the gov. needs to get on the ball...
as for the guns being dare county property...isn't all dare county property supposed to be tagged with a county ID and serial number? im wondering if johnson bought these guys "for the kids" but keeps them at his house so he can use them when the kids aren't. if they don't know where the guns are kept how is that teaching the kids property gun safety? they are just hiding behind the kids to do and get what they want. why hasn't any investigation been done in dare county on this issue or all the other crazy stuff the elected get away with?
I have been present during the "school program" at the obx range and I will tell you those days on the range have been far from safe. Children and adolescents were wandering about freely, some holding firearms with actions closed(maybe loaded) and there were several people complaining. The range attendants told my party that they are a seperate entity and that they were not responsible for them. It seems not being responsible for anything is the way everybody handles everything around here. I promise you the county WILL be responsible once somebody gets hurt, I, for one, would bring in an outside attorney to straighten it out!
People who will try to turn this into a 2nd amendment or parent/child togetherness matter are missing the point. The point is the county should not be financing this project and the schools should not be aiding and abetting it. It would never pass muster with the majority of parents in Dare County or the majority of voters, and that's the reason it was handled by Mike Johnson the way it was. Another example of no transparency too many times by our commissioners. Also why else would the school board and commissioners want to disavow any knowledge or responsibility about what's really going on? Duhhhhh !!! They know this is a firecracker. Shame on them..
The writer of EOD is projecting is own personal bias and prejudices as if they were of the citizens of Dare County, and that is not the case by any means. Most citizens in Dare County realize that our youth need and deserve the opportunity to participate in all types of activities. Our youth need and deserve the best services that the County can offer.
The parents of the shooting teams do support their children. They purchase ammo and targets for their sons and daughters to practice with. The teams only have formal practice twice a month. The team member must, and do practice on their own during the week and on weekends.
If the County limited its' spending to only activities that were, in your words, "providing the necessary services to the people" our youth in particular and the citizen of Dare County in general would be poorly served.
I wouldn’t want to live in your world.
Sam B
Sam B
I have to inform you that you do live in my world and its not the same world your father or grandfather lived in...like it or not. I assume you know the county allocates $9000.00 per year to purchase ammo, skeets, etc. for these teams. You say parents also purchase ammo and that's great. Could you then ask them not to take county funding? I am not against gun training if a parent wants their child to have it...(I trained my kids and helped my grandkids)...I just don't want to pay for it or have the liability (through my tax dollars)for any part of it. I am not a liberal extremist as you might think...but, I know I live in a different world than the one in which I grew up...and believe that right-wing extremists are as detremental to our future as left-wing liberals...By the way Sam how would you like our schools to sponsor a "I've Got the Best Tattoo" club, or "Let's Drive and Text" Club, or a "what'd You Smoke Last Night" club...Sometimes parents like yourself need to be thinking about putting your energy into these kind of matters instead of trying to relive your life through your kids. JMO.
The shooting teams offered to our youth are one of many opportunities parent s can use to spend time with their children. I stand corrected and must say that I was not aware of the specifics involved in the financing of the program. Please be aware that funds from the N.C. Wildlife Resources Commission licensing fees charged to hunters, etc. are also used for these types of programs, if that will ease your mind some. Do a little more research and you will find that maybe Dare County receives these funds from the Commission.
You have totally distorted parts of your story by associating our shooting teams with “guns in schools” and “bear hunting”. They have nothing to do with our youth learning and competing in shooting rifles and shotguns, archery and orienteering. Your correction on this is in order !
“Anon” is totally wrong - the program IS professionally run and the students are handling their firearms safely. If they violate the safety procedures they learned in class and violate safety procedures at the range they are sent home.
I really don’t care if you come out and observe my son or our youth at the shooting range. You obviously are more comfortable behind your computer.
Do you not understand our youth need more programs and adult involvement? I am sorry you feel as a tax payer you should not share in any of this responsibility or cost.
I will assure you that as a tax payer you WILL eventually be paying a much higher cost associated with our youth staying home playing with computers, video games and IPODS. Too bad we don’t have a shopping mall so you could show them how to hang out that would help our tax payers.
Father & Son
Father & Son
You say..."You have totally distorted parts of your story by associating our shooting teams with “guns in schools” and “bear hunting..."
I think you are blaming the wrong person here. The real blame lies with Commissioner Mike Johnson and his board for this..not me..
By the way, perhaps you can tell our readers how this whole thing got started and landed in the laps of the taxpayers. Did a group of parents or people go to the school board or county commissioners in open meeting and discuss and ask for this? I think not. Did the school board and county commissioners discuss this and vote on it in open meeting? I think not. How did the appropriation find its way into the county budget? Did anyone ask for it other than Mike Johnson and certainly not in any open meeting.
Finally, Mr. Father & Son, let me say that my family photo album is full of memories of hunting with my children and teaching them about guns and safety and also doing the same with my grandchildren. I am not against guns or youth hunts..but, I am against sorry ass people who want everything done for them these days and thinks the government owes them a handout. Finally, I am as comfortable in a dogfight as I am sitting behind the computer. So, if that's what you're looking for bring it on.. Otherwise thanks for visiting and taking part in my blog....which by the way is a blog...not a newspaper..and it is fully funded by one person...me...
Oh wow that's scandalous! I wish they had a shooting club when I was at MHS. Instead I had to learn on the streets and now I'm in MS-13. :(
I totally agree with what you said - "I am against sorry ass people who want everything done for them these days and thinks the government owes them a handout". I don't look for handouts and I never have. As far as investigating where the program started, and was it approved in a public meeting - I could care less. I work for a living and will gladly continue to support the shooting teams without help from the Dare County taxpayer. I do appreciate your blog and NO I am not looking for a dog fight. I am already fighting every day to raise a family, pay our bills and survive the "Obama Years". God Bless You, Take Care - Happy Shooting!
Father & Son
Who can I contact to enroll my children in these programs?
Dear Sir,
I am a participant in the MMS Shooting Team. I, for one, say it is an amazing experience for me. I think anyone who wishes to shoot or improve their shooting skills should participate on the team. It has taught me and many others valuable shooting techniques. It has also taught me gun saftey and proper ways to treat a firearm. You miss that this whole program is sponsored by the North Carolina Division of Wildlife using their curriculum that teaches us about environmental and wildlife conservation. Thank you.
Stephen W.
Thank you Stephen w.,
It is wonderful that you are benefiting from the program, but I hope you know that NC wildlife com. is not paying for it. And I'll wager that most of the other schools teams around the state are not funded by local tax dollars. Don't you agree that your parents should buy your own ammo and supplies. Not me? Nothing personal, Stephen.
I only wish that my county had the funds to spend on programs like this. You sure would not hear us complain like you all are.
As a county employee who has seen no cost of living raises in a couple of years and other benefits slashed, I am against the county funding a shooting team. If the county is as broke as the commissioners make out, then all non-essential programs should be cut. And I'm also a property owner here and pay taxes. Mike Johnson seems to have plenty of money. A sound front home, boats, nice vehicles and takes expensive hunting trips. Let him fund the shooting program.
I don't have any skin in this game, but am always amazed at these sorts of stories.
People complain taxes are too high - but then never want the government to cut their pet project.
I agree with Eye On Dare that this is probably a great program. I also agree that county government has no business financially supporting this program. It is especially troublesome that the funding was never discussed in open session of the commission.
Too often the taxpayers money is spent on things it probably shouldn't be. Think about how many other line items like this that are out there that all added together if cut from the budget could make a real impact on the budget.
I have no problem with the schools offering this program. After all I think the more we can expand the programs our kids are exposed to the better. I would rather have my kids afforded this type of program, than not. What is the problem with offering a program like this vs a golf program, or carpentry class, or auto mechanics. I have been involved with the Scouts, and they offer so many different programs for a child to experience because they know the more options there are, the more likely a child can find something that will stimulate their mind and keep the interest alive. Like I said, I don't see anything wrong with this type of program.
I think its a great idea for the tax payers to fund our students proficiency with firearms.
Hmmm....
To EOD
You need to get to the real point, you just don't like Mike Johnson or Guns! (A side note) If you want waste into County waste look at the Sheriff Office, (new uniforms, guns,air cards for laptops, vehicle strips). The weapons they replaced were less than 6 years old and they put military rifles in the hands of officers that cann't shoot. Maybe they need to send them to train with the kids before they are turned lose on all of us!
You're close, Anon
I don't like paying for guns and ammo for other people's children, plain and simple.
Finally, as to Mike Johnson (commissioner), what's there to like? I've help pay him a little over $100,000 in salary since he got into office, along with more expense money than he deserved; and what did I get for it? Nothing, not even a slab of bear meat!!!!
Be honest EOD....You don't like paying for anything!
Please hold you critical view and potshots at EOD. Hosting this site takes time and he has given kudos when deserved to all the BOC. The real issue here is that BOC started this thing without a public discussion or the opinion of the taxpayers who let him into office. If you read around this blog, you will see that EOD is a firearms owner himself. It should be pointed out that the BOC defensive spin on this thing has been "parent-child togetherness", "for the children", and even a response of "they will do drugs if not for us" All these attempts to re-direct the arguement are transparent.They are trying to avoid the simple fact that they have done something without taxpayer knowledge or consent. That is the issue. Now some people cant say where these taxpayer purchased weapons or ammunition are? This is inexcusable and an unnecessary liability, and if they turn up at "somebody's" house, then there is an integrity problem. Lets see them try to explain their way out if somebody (God forbid) gets injured. These are the same people who lets a gun club operate on our County property for years WITHOUT INSURANCE!
EOD has such a grudge out for Johnson, let’s just say, if a vessel sank off of Oregon Inlet, and Mike Johnson saved 100 life’s and his only means of transportation was a county vehicle, EOD would still B**** about the fuel Mike Johnson used at the "Tax Payers’ Expense"!
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