First, the old, long forgotten reasons not to do the project were tossed aside by the town's officials and the shoreline commission. They are:
(1) beach nourishment will not be successful on the Outer Banks' high energy beaches.
(2) beach nourishment will totally destroy what natural beach we have left and a natural beach is what attracts our visitors.
(3) the ecology of our beach and its swash zone, and shoreline creatures and aquatic life will be harmed beyond repair.
(4) the vast majority of residents are opposed to being taxed to pay for protecting private oceanfront properties in the form of beach nourishment.
And, if the above wasn't sufficient reason to have never pushed the project in the faces of the public so many times, we can add that:
(1) Most citizens have never had sufficient faith in the project or the engineer/company hired to plan it.
(2) Funding has already been voted down on two occasions
(3) The Town of Nags Head has not convinced, even a majority of oceanfront property owners that the current plan is doable, from either a financial or engineering standpoint.
(4) The town is still $184 million short of property valuations, and time has essentially run out on them, despite the fact they still won't admit it.
(5) the public is going to be very unhappy if, by hook or crook, meaning padding the figures with town owned and/or state owned property they come up with the totals at the last minute.
(6) a project cannot be gotten underway in time to accomplish the task in 2011.
We could go on, but the fact is, the people of Dare County are sick and tired of hearing about beach nourishment. Let's bury it.
46 comments:
I disagree, I think there's plenty of time left to bully the remaining homeowners.
I loved hearing that Oakes' goons were actually visiting the people unannounced at their houses. Love the mafia tactics, keep on it, this is a blast to watch!
Ray, your occasional blatant disregard for the facts in pursuit of presenting your point of view is alarming with your broad readership.
1) Nourishment has never been tried on these beaches.
2) The natural beach is extraordinarily resilient. Mother nature, we can both agree is tough, and is going to have a say in moving that sand around, and where it ends up.
3) "Harmed beyond repair" - I think you know this is untrue, because I'm sure you've read the Environmental impact Study, and see that benthic communities recover regularly. And these will be monitored pre and post nourishment to complete yet another study that shows they survive.
4) That's why this proposal doesn't tax the vast majority of residents. It uses the occupancy tax, the tax that has the least impact on residents, and a voluntary special assessment on the proeprty owners that have the most to lose.
Over 50% of the property owners and over 50% of the property value have already signed.
The town will sign to protect its beach access infrastructure. The cost of the assessment to the town is a fraction of the actual cost to repair beach accesses and stairs after Hurricane Isabel, so the Board believes it is the fiscally responsible thing to do.
Our Board has unanimously supported beach nourishment as the best long term option for Nags Head. There has been extensive public discussion, over many years, and I'm sure there will continue to be discussion. We're close on timing for this season, everything would have to fall into place perfectly. Waiting until the next season leaves you open to the loss of more taxbase and infrastructure, but there is no time limit on collecting signatures for a special assessment.
We've been on the verge of getting a permit, and we've invested nearly a million dollars in that process. It's a big first step toward a real project.
But Ray, please, let's agree on the same set of facts. There are valid concerns, and different opinions and we've tried to discuss them openly and fairly. But there's also some stuff that is as close to scientific fact as you can get. Again, the EIS is on the Town of Nags Head website. See for yourself about the recovery of the benthic community. Watch for a permit record of decision from the Army Corps of Engineers soon.
How do you think that engineered beach would have held up today? Not too good!
they got there permit today for the project. do you really think they will stop now that they have permits? they got a backup plan watch....
Yeah this is gonna still get done. They'll just do it smaller.
But there isn't an engineered thing in the world that wouldn't have gotten swamped off the beach today.
It ain't the "name" hurricanes people, it's the 4-day pounders like we're getting right now.
check this out, this dune line is at least 10 feet higher than anything they can build down there:
http://www.frf.usace.army.mil/oscar/nowc0.jpg
eod, you fail to mention one simple fact. dare county has amassed over 25 million (and growing annually)in funds for the sole purpose of funding a beach nourishment project. where do you think that money will eventually end up? all of the other towns are at least three to five years from obtaining their own permits.
Bob O., your comments are always welcome here on EOD. I know you are about as tired of trying to make your point about bn as I am, after following the issue for so many years. So, briefly,
(1) BN has, in fact, been tried in Nags Head before, and that fact is documented in your own town records.
(2) I do believe the beach can be harmed, both esthetically and environmentally, by beach nourishment. As to the benthic communities, I urge you to go to Va.Beach and walk into the water and find a swash zone, or any benthic creatures. Then, try finding seashells or seabirds on the beach; or people fishing from the shoreline. Likewise, go south to some of our NC beaches that have had bn and do the same thing. Talk with the locals down there about how bn has affected their surf fishing, etc..
(3) Also, when you allow multiple signatures on one parcel and a single signature on another parcel; and throw condo units up against vacation homes, etc., how can anyone trust the final figure or think they have been treated fairly. When you get through with that petition drive, it will take a team of experts more than a few days to really be able to say what you ended up with is correct. In the end, the public will never trust the outcome and that's JMO.
For goodness sakes, Bob, let's hope Nags Head's bn project doesn't bomb as badly as the Southern Shores' dredging project. :) :)....and that fiasco isn't over yet..
I grew up at Va. Beach years before the beach was expanded. My wife and I moved to OBX several years ago. I talked to Ray about the idea of bn here. At first, I was in favor of bn but have come to oppose it. Our beaches here are so different, in a good way, from the sterile, artificial looking expanse of sand at Va. Beach. Ray's right----our wave action is so much more vibrant than at Va. Beach----what Nags head is attempting is, I fear, doomed to failure and the waste of millions of dollars. Way to go, Bob.
Let's see after this low departs how the nourishment/sandbagging at Rodanthe worked.. There was a whole lot of ocean running through there today
This week should be telling for us all...how long would an "engineered beach" have held up against this wave action?...and, what good would it be to have a parallel bridge over Oregon Inlet today? We aren't having an unusual storm event. Remember last Veterans Day?
Ray, I really appreciate your blog. I'm trying to limit my visits because my poor mind is about to explode with your exposing so much nonsense in high places.
MR
$164 million short = A dead project! We told you once that we didn’t approve of this project; how many more times do we have to say it Bob O?
My hope is this will die, but Bob's own post right here in this comment section shows that will never happen. He and the government will pound away again and again despite the fact that the citizens of Nags Head clearly do not want BN, and the petition drive has fallen way short of its goals by the self-established Nov 1 target date. Mr. Mayor, please notice what happened in Congress this past year when our elected offical all began beleiving they knew more than the people, and imposed solutions the people did not want or like. They were voted out....dismissed....the worst midterm loss for a ruling party in 70 years. Watch and try to learn, Mr. Mayor....
I drove thru Rodanthe Friday night after they re-opened the highway. Almost all of the big sandbags are exposed at the north end of Rodanthe. All the sand that covered them is gone. NCDOT spent all last winter trucking thousands of cubic yards of sand into there and it's mostly gone. And the storms not over.
I just came from the beach in Kitty Hawk. Overwash will occur there again at high tide. Strange how nature does what it wants to despite the pitiful efforts of man. Bob Oakes and the rest of the folks who favor spending millions on BN are either nuts, or, they all have pictures of each other with sheep.
check out the sand bag pictures at the north end of rodanthe at
http://www.bryanelkus.com/
every public official in nags head should go down there and look and tell us where all the sand went
Please, Ray loves picture design, don't give him any ideas about sheep and elected officials.
And Ray, anyone, the Town included, can call a fish a duck, but it doesn't make it so. I know you read Outer Banks Voice - didn't Russ's comparison on size and length of the project make sense? No one on the Outer Banks has done a beach nourishment project.
On the benthic community restoration, I'm going by the science. Did you read the EIS on benthic critters? How do you think they survive on days like today when there's a lot of sand moving?
On petition signatures, you count number of property owners by who is on the deed. There's NC case law to that effect. And we're posting the PIN number beside the name on the savenagsheadbeach.com website. I bet you could review it reasonably quickly, and you are welcome to do that.
We are in the process of scheduling another workshop on the nourishment project for early December. Please continue to offer your comments and criticisms.
PS I don't have goons. Trying to rely on civil discourse.
Glad to see that the S-Curves/Mirlo Beach situation has come into this discussion. Noticed in today's (or yesterday's or tomorrow's...who can tell) edition of the CT that there is action afoot to get the Windmill Point site ready for our community/civic/convention center. Fill is coming from Rodanthe. From the looks of the Dare Web Cam, Rodanthe needs all the sand it can get...back on the beach. What are these people thinking?? MR
BobO,
Why don't we take a vote on it and follow what the voters decide?
Oh yes, we have done that twice already and you didn't like the results, so you ignore the wants of the citizen voters and go with the politicians who follow their own self interests.
Goons fits the tactics used!
One vote for BobbyH's description of "bully and goons"
Whoops, VOTE? we all know what happens when people vote on an issue like beach nourishment on the Outer Banks don't we?
There is no way Nags Head officials should be saying that residents outside of the project area don't have a financial stake in the project when they admit that a maintainence plan "might" be paid for by ad valorem taxes or other taxes. In addition the fact that the town has spent around $1 million thus far and wants to pay taxes on town owned property to help fund the project, puts everyone in the same boat in one way or another. Like it or not, there's some smoke and mirrors involved here. Right Bob?
look how the dunes help up in Rodanthe this weekend. does NH really think this is going to work!
The town will never let the voters decide again. Mr. Oakes has made it clear he does not think Nags Head voters are intelligent enough to have a say.
On Feb 1, he wrote on the Outer Banks Voice:
"I would say that political leaders are elected to be responsible stewards of their community. This does not always mean following the majority opinion."
http://outerbanksvoice.com/2010/02/01/rebuilding-the-beach-whats-next/
Doing a search on the dare County website, I don't see that Oakes' Nags Head property is big bucks. So what's his angle? Owns property under different names?
"I would say that political leaders are elected to be responsible stewards of their community. This does not always mean following the majority opinion."
I agree with Mr Oakes statement 100%. With that said, just WHY isn't Mr. Oakes following his words? Mr. Oakes is not even close to being a responsible steward and is not only leading the Town of Nags Head to irresponsibility but taking the towns of KH and KDH with it.
Ray, I've never said that people outside the assessment area don't have a stake. We all depend on the tourism economy. I said the occupancy tax is the tax source that has the least impact on local residents.
Talk votes for a minute. Obviously, local elections are limited to local voters. 109 of them voted in the bond referendum in the special oceanfront and oceanside district, 56 for, 53 against. Failed 324 to 478 in the rest of the town.
Compare that 109 voters number to the number of property owners that have already signed the petition, 985. Or compare it to the total number of property owners. Which way is better representation of what the majority of the people think.
And I stand by my statement in the Outer Banks Voice. Leadership is supposed to mean looking toward the future, and accepting some sacrifice in the short run to achieve long term goals. Pure democracy tends to vote for bread and circuses, I think that's part of why we are where we are today, because politician pander to voter's short term wants, instead of prioritzing long term investments.
I own one piece of oceanfront property, the house I live in. It's been in my wife's family since 1932 when it was built. While erosion is not an urgent problem for our area, in the long run, if we do nothing, we will end up like Seagull Street in South Nags Head. I think it's responsible to try to prevent or postpone that if possible.
Do our elected officials think they have greater wisdom than those who elected them? Do they think they can be more forward-thinking than the rest of us? Do they think we are all just a bunch of dolts who don't know what's best for us...and for our environment? How many of our elected officials have even stepped onto one of our beaches over the past few days? Why don't the all-knowing-and-wise-fools arrange to put the overwash sand back onto the beach from which it washed over? Don't they know that these barrier islands are trying to migrate? Still trying to limit my visits before I lose my mind. MR
Bob O,
If the town is "looking toward the future", as you suggest, why is there no Plan B when it comes to sea level rise and shoreline erosion.
Putting all our eggs in one basket, which is where your BN or nothing statement puts you and the board, is hardly a courageous or practical way of handling the town's business.
And where is it written that this area is destined to sustain what, as it exists now, may very well be an unsustainable tourism economy?
Mr. Oakes, unfortunately for those of you who think you know better, we live in a democracy.
It's what we fight for here and elsewhere.
If you don't like that system, your theories on government are very welcome in Iran and Saudi Arabia and North Korea, you could move there and find that exact same train of thought.
This is what happens when the people elect people that have vested interests in certain things. They tend to do whatever they can to protect their vested interest. Are you really surprised?
A lot of our 401k's are going to wind up on the beaches in Nags Head. But only for a little while.
Who said this?
"You elected me, so now I get to do whatever the hell I want."
__Richard Johnson
__Bob Oakes
Bob O
"Compare that 109 voters number to the number of property owners that have already signed the petition, 985. Or compare it to the total number of property owners. Which way is better representation of what the majority of the people think."
If you are truly concerned with what the majority of the people think about this new BN project why don't you ask the entire town population instead of just the ocean side property owners?
Mayor Oaks,
Am I correct in my understanding of the following:
Property owners that are not Nags Head residents may sign this petition.
If enough people sign this petition the town will spend at least another $300,000 of taxpayer money in addition to the $1,000,000+ that has already been spent.
An increase in property tax and/or another assessment will be will be levied to fund the maintenance on this nourishment project.
A town resident that is not so fortunate as to own property on the ocean side of the beach road has no say in this process.
Anon,
We live in a representative democracy. The people elect representatives, there's not a referendum on every action. That's how the US Constitution and the NC Constitution are set up.
I've stood for election three times. If you have different ideas than those I express (and have expressed in each campaign) then I encourage you to run. And to continue to engage in the discussion.
Anon from 11:33,
Essentially correct. Two clarifications.
The repair and replacement of beach accesses after Hurricane Isabel cost between $400,000 and $500,000.
If the petition is approved, the engineering and permitting costs are included in the total cost and funding.
I don't see future nourishments being paid by ad valorem. It's just too big a number. A special assessment would require the same approval process. If people feel like it worked well, and lasted a reasonable period of time, I think they would do it again.
Beach,
All of our eggs are in one basket so it seems like we ought to maintain the basket.
Seriously, exactly how and to what extent will non-Nags Head OBX residents be affected by Nags Head BN? I live in Kitty Hawk but think the whole BN concept is an irresponsible fools' game given our ocean and beach dynamics. However, if I won't be asked/required to foot some of the bill, let the flushing-the-loot-down-the-drain begin. Mr. Oakes' comment about his "not seeing" future taxes used for nourishment is not comforting at all----can anyone say RED FLAG"?
If they're hellbent on proceeding, has anybody considered trying this out on maybe a mile of beach instead of going all in from the git-go? This smells.
were stuck with bob oakes for three more years, wonderful!!!!!!
can we impeach a mayor?
“We live in a representative democracy. The people elect representatives, there's not a referendum on every action. That's how the US Constitution and the NC Constitution are set up.”
Actually we live in a Republic Democracy in which the people retain supreme control over the government. I substantiate this claim based on the United States Constitution Article IV Section 4.
Mr. Oaks, I respect your position as Mayor of Nags Head, but rewriting the of the United States Constitution is over stepping your authority.
I am opposed to sand dredge and the nh plan, but seriously...the personal attacks aren't relevant or helpful...Bob O has been consistently transparent and willing to engage in dialog about the issues which is refreshing. He has a tough job, he is doing it very well considering the circumstances and the cause, and hopefully he will change his mind. -gb
EOD agrees with gb, the last person who commented. Please refrain from personal attacks.
Bob Oakes is, by far, the most open and willing to talk elected official in the county. Let's not take it out on him personally, please...
I'm also opposed to BN but very grateful that we've been given the opportunity to listen to Mr. Oakes respond each and every step of the way.
None of our other reps get anywhere close to this kind of quality exchange. Disagree if you want, but be nice.
-gs
-SS
Bob O,
You obviously have no idea of what a basket is or whose eggs reside there.
You have put the towns eggs in a basket designed by the hapless Tim Kana
and are foolishly clinging to a core sample and a flimsy EIS.
In the end it will be Mother nature that makes the call as to how wise that course of action is.
God help you and your corrupt BOC if you move forward with your flawed and deceitful plan.
Dear Mayor Oakes,
Are you comprehending what is being written here???? We know you didn't comprehend voter responses. When are you actually going to listen to people?
I have a question that I'm having a difficult time getting a correct answer.
maybe Mr. Oakes can help?
The homes which are condemned in SNH, particularly the ones who are sueing the Town of nags Head. Are these homes currently listed in the tax records? (I cannot seem to find them) Or do they get removed once they were declared nuisance?
Did any of these homes sign a petition? Are they being counted? And if they did, are they currently paying taxes and / or tax bills up to date?
Reading the comments on this post is making me come close to vomiting.
1) Mayor Bob Oakes is one of the most honest, hard working, and approachable leaders I have ever met. For someone to call for his impeachment is simply ludicrous.
2) A post above stated that someone wanted the vote to be opened to everyone again. If all property owners were allowed to vote, I bet it would pass by an extremely wide margin.
Bob, if you read this, keep up the fight. You are a great leader who has a true understanding of how our representative democracy is supposed to run.
Some politicians do so much to appease a couple hundred voters, and stray away from what they feel is the right thing to do, because they are afraid of losing re-election.
Abraham Lincoln did what he knew was right even though it meant losing half the country. I want a leader who stands by his convictions.
Thanks for the comments above, Mom. Always good to know you're following EOD.
Followup on the status of "condemned homes" signing the petition.
We (the Town)are counting the tax value as it reflects on the county website. You can find them all by address if they have no value and by name if they do.
All the homes are listed in the tax records, even those without value. IF the homes were to come out of condemnation then they would be appraised and given a value.
Those that have signed but have no value can/could be counted, but there are only two so I think we would be better off to not “certify” them.
On our form of government:
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government ”
This clause, sometimes referred to as the Guarantee Clause, has historically been a part of the debate about the rights of citizens vis-a-vis state governments. The Constitution offers no explanation as to what constitutes a republican government; however, the Federalist Papers give us an insight as to the intent of the Founders. A republican form of government is distinguished from a pure democracy, which the Founding Fathers wanted to avoid; as James Madison wrote in Federalist No. 10, "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths."
Republican form of government, representative democracy, these sound the same to me. Interesting caution against pure democracy by Madison.
Benjamin Franklin was asked----"what have we got"? He responded----"a republic, if you can keep it." Don't go overboard, Bob!
Love,
Mom
Post a Comment